Episode 7
Optimizing Hormone Health with Dr. Michelle Leary, ND, IFMCP
My next guest is Dr. Michelle Leary. In this episode, Dr. Leary and I will talk all things hormones and the way they impact your metabolism, mental health, sexual health, physical health and aging, as well as some tips for how to help balance your hormones naturally.
Dr. Leary is a force to be reckoned with. She is a compassionate, intellectual, and dedicated provider to her patients. She began her early career in cardiac rehab prior to her training as a naturopathic physician. Following her 4 years of medical training, she began a research role at the Institute for Functional Medicine (IFM) and clinical residency program in adult primary care in Bellevue, WA at Eastside Integrated Primary Care.
In 2016 she was chosen as the first naturopathic physician ever to join a fellowship in multiple sclerosis management through the National MS Society. She has guest lectured for IFM, the Washington Association for Naturopathic Physicians, the University of Washington MS center, and Bastyr University. She became the Director of Functional Medicine at VIDA Integrated Health in 2019 where she leads a team of residents, doctors, nurses, and nutritionists.
Dr. Leary is passionate about Functional Medicine and specializes in sexual health and metabolic medicine for men and women. In addition to her clinical role, she is the owner and creator of PowerSexBeauty.com - a lifestyle brand/blog created for female bodily empowerment, embracing sensuality, clean beauty, and cellular health.
Where you can find Dr. Leary:
If you missed last week’s episode “Myofunctional Therapy: How It Can Improve Your Breathing, Sleep, Relieve Migraines, and More with Dana Tasche,” you can find it here: https://the-nutrition-edit.captivate.fm/episode/myofunctional-therapy-how-it-can-improve-your-breathing-sleep-relieve-migraines-and-more-with-dana-tasche
Books mentioned:
The Disease Delusion by Dr. Jeffrey S. Bland
Why Good Sex Matters by dr. Nan Wise
Attached by Amir Levine, M.D. and Rachel S. F. Heller, M.A.
Interested in working with Jeannie one on one? Schedule a 30-minute Coffee Talk here.
Check out the Jeannie Oliver Wellness website or connect on social: @joliverwellness
Questions about this episode or the podcast? DM me on Instagram
Music credit: Funk’d Up by Reaktor Productions
A Podcast Launch Bestie production
Transcript
Hello, hello, and welcome to the Nutrition Edit Podcast.
Jeannie Oliver:My guest today is Dr.
Jeannie Oliver:Michelle Leary.
Jeannie Oliver:Dr.
Jeannie Oliver:Leary is a functional medicine physician specializing in primary care, sexual
Jeannie Oliver:and hormonal health, fertility and anti-aging medicine for men and women,
Jeannie Oliver:and she's the Director of Functional Medicine at Vita Integrated Health.
Jeannie Oliver:Dr.
Jeannie Oliver:Larry began her early career in cardiac rehab prior to receiving
Jeannie Oliver:her doctorate from BA University.
Jeannie Oliver:Then in 2016, she was the first naturopathic physician ever to
Jeannie Oliver:be selected for a fellowship in multiple sclerosis management
Jeannie Oliver:through the National MS Society.
Jeannie Oliver:She has also completed training at the Institute of Women's Health, American
Jeannie Oliver:Academy of Anti-Aging Medicine, and the Prestigious Institute for
Jeannie Oliver:Functional Medicine in areas of sexology, hormone management, anti-aging
Jeannie Oliver:medicine, and metabolic weight loss.
Jeannie Oliver:In addition to her clinical role, Dr.
Jeannie Oliver:Larry is the owner and creator of Power sex beauty.com, a lifestyle brand blog
Jeannie Oliver:dedicated to women who want to empower themselves through optimization of health,
Jeannie Oliver:invigorate their sexual energy, and live beautifully from the inside and out.
Jeannie Oliver:Today we're talking about hormones and what you should and shouldn't be doing to
Jeannie Oliver:optimize your hormone health so you can feel more vibrant in every stage of life.
Jeannie Oliver:I love Dr.
Jeannie Oliver:Leary's approach and she shares so much great info with us today, and
Jeannie Oliver:I think you're gonna love it too.
Jeannie Oliver:And with that, let's jump into my interview with Dr.
Jeannie Oliver:Michelle Leary.
Jeannie Oliver:Hey everyone.
Jeannie Oliver:Welcome back to the Nutrition Edit podcast.
Jeannie Oliver:I'm your host, Jeannie Oliver, and today I have a very special guest with me, Dr.
Jeannie Oliver:Michelle Leary, who is the Director of Functional Medicine for Vita Integrated
Dr. Michelle Leary:Health.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Welcome, Michelle.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Thank you so much.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Thank you for having me.
Dr. Michelle Leary:This is so fun.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah, I'm so glad you could join me.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Thank you for taking the
Jeannie Oliver:time.
Jeannie Oliver:Absolutely.
Jeannie Oliver:So let's just jump right in.
Jeannie Oliver:Why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and your background and
Jeannie Oliver:how you got into practicing functional
Dr. Michelle Leary:medicine?
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So, functional medicine is really near and dear to my heart and
Dr. Michelle Leary:has been for quite some time.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I am the current director of functional medicine, but it took many years to
Dr. Michelle Leary:kind of get to this spot and be able to do some of the magical things that
Dr. Michelle Leary:I think our colleagues are able to.
Dr. Michelle Leary:To do in this current practice.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So I, um, started off actually back in Switzerland when I was in my
Dr. Michelle Leary:early twenties teaching Pilates.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I was actually on a study abroad year in southern Switzerland
Dr. Michelle Leary:in an area called Luo.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And yeah, it's beautiful there.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Have you been there?
Dr. Michelle Leary:I've not been to Laguna,
Dr. Michelle Leary:I've
Jeannie Oliver:been lason in that, that area.
Dr. Michelle Leary:It's kind of like a magical place that everyone,
Dr. Michelle Leary:if they have the opportunity to go, it's right north of Como.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So here I was 20 years old living in this.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Uh, flat that was in Logano was, it was a very special time and
Dr. Michelle Leary:I was at the time, very deeply involved in the fashion industry.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I thought that I wanted to do international business and had actually
Dr. Michelle Leary:done an internship for Valentino and learned very, very quickly that I did
Dr. Michelle Leary:not, love the fashion industry for a variety of reasons, namely some of the.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Kind of cutthroat behaviors that go on behind the scenes is one might imagine
Dr. Michelle Leary:if you've seen Devil's Worst Prada, yes.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I ended up started teaching Pilates, and Pilates was such a savior
Dr. Michelle Leary:for me in terms of stress relief.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I had clients who were coming up to me asking about their bodies, what
Dr. Michelle Leary:to do for their health nutrition, and I loved being a resource.
Dr. Michelle Leary:However, I didn't have beyond my Pilates training.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I didn't have any other education in that realm, in the health realm.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I had taken lots of science, courses in end of high school at a community
Dr. Michelle Leary:college, but beyond that was really not immersed in, in the science world.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So I changed my major.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Uh, I decided that I was gonna switch to kinesiology, which is kind of
Dr. Michelle Leary:study of human movement, uh, exercise science, and ended up, taking another
Dr. Michelle Leary:extra year of my undergrad to do that.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And really fell in love with, uh, anatomy and physiology
Dr. Michelle Leary:and particularly biochemistry.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Biochemistry was really where I, uh, found that I could dive into
Dr. Michelle Leary:what was going on inside the body.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And so upon graduation with my exercise science degree, I went into cardiac rehab.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I was doing a lot of cardiac rehab, um, which is basically using exercise
Dr. Michelle Leary:as a modality of helping someone who's had a heart attack or another
Dr. Michelle Leary:cardiovascular event to get well, and that exercise component was
Dr. Michelle Leary:obviously so critical as part of their.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Path to healing, but I knew that I wanted more.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I wanted to be the one who was helping people prevent the heart attack
Dr. Michelle Leary:from the first place and not just from the lens of, after treatment.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And so I started, looking very closely at different, Doctoral programs,
Dr. Michelle Leary:naturopathic, osteopathic, and, uh, conventional allopathic medical schools.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I did another internship at the National Institute of Health
Dr. Michelle Leary:as well as, in New York City.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I had the opportunity to shadow a lot of physicians in different
Dr. Michelle Leary:specialties and that, uh, it may actually be more the, um, interest of
Dr. Michelle Leary:mind to go into naturopathic medicine.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And so I ended up doing that, um, circa around 2012.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I started my program, at BA year.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I trained for four years in naturopathic medicine.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And upon, actually my third year of school, I was introduced to an amazing
Dr. Michelle Leary:book that if, uh, your audience hasn't heard of before, called The
Dr. Michelle Leary:Disease Delusion by Jeff Bland.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Dr.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Jeff Bland, who is the founder of the Institute for Functional
Dr. Michelle Leary:Medicine, along with his wife Susan.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And he, was this just profound influence on my, end of school career and my, my
Dr. Michelle Leary:early years, in practice and, and still to this day, actually saw him last week
Dr. Michelle Leary:because I was introduced to him after reading his book from a colleague.
Dr. Michelle Leary:He then really, Got me involved in the Institute for Functional Medicine,
Dr. Michelle Leary:which was the organization that trains physicians, nutritionists, uh, dieticians,
Dr. Michelle Leary:chiropractors a whole lot, uh, in how to practice functional medicine.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So this is a long-winded way of saying that.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Jeff was, was this influence and mentor that has propelled,
Dr. Michelle Leary:my practice, and experience.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Because I then ended up working for the Institute for Functional
Dr. Michelle Leary:Medicine concurrent during my residency years in primary care.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Okay, good.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So congratulations doing that.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So it's been a road, it's been an interesting, road, but I, it's
Dr. Michelle Leary:been a really special experience that I'm fortunate to have.
Jeannie Oliver:That's amazing.
Jeannie Oliver:What a really cool story and journey.
Jeannie Oliver:I love that.
Jeannie Oliver:We'll talk more about my interesting.
Jeannie Oliver:Brief fashion background too, but I absolutely can relate
Jeannie Oliver:to what you're talking about.
Jeannie Oliver:It's a different, um, a different crowd.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah,
Dr. Michelle Leary:yeah, for sure.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I think about when I showed up in that first day, like what I was
Dr. Michelle Leary:wearing in that first day and was like, oh gosh, like high fashion.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So it was, it was just a different time I guess.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yes, absolutely.
Jeannie Oliver:So give us a little of a brief overview if you would.
Jeannie Oliver:I talk a lot about functional medicine, functional nutrition
Jeannie Oliver:on this show and in my practice.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:But tell the listeners briefly what functional medicine is and how it
Jeannie Oliver:differs from conventional western
Dr. Michelle Leary:medicine.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So, Yeah, so functional medicine, it's a great question.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I think there's dozens of correct answers, but functional medicine is
Dr. Michelle Leary:really looking at the interweavings between genes, biochemistry, the
Dr. Michelle Leary:environment, lifestyle, and how all of those things influence how we express.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Outwardly a exhibition of health, or potentially an exhibition of dysfunction.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And I'm careful to use the term disease because disease is really just a
Dr. Michelle Leary:compilation of, of dysfunction that happens again and again and again
Dr. Michelle Leary:over time and is not able to self.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Correct.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And so functional medicine really uses the foundations of basic science.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So the understanding of immunology, biochemistry, making sure we're go, even
Dr. Michelle Leary:going back to genetics, basic genetics, uh, and then applying more modern
Dr. Michelle Leary:utilizations of genomics and how we can interpret and understand how someone.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Is, functioning as a human and if they are experiencing symptoms of
Dr. Michelle Leary:dysfunction, which is often why people come to you or I, what we
Dr. Michelle Leary:need to do to get them back on track.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Uh, using lifestyle as a foundation and then adding things on as a higher
Dr. Michelle Leary:level interventions thereafter.
Jeannie Oliver:I love that.
Jeannie Oliver:I think a, you know, a common phrase that we hear in our world is jeans load
Jeannie Oliver:the gun and lifestyle pulls the trigger.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:So I think that you explain that beautifully.
Jeannie Oliver:I, I love the way that you explain that.
Jeannie Oliver:Cause I've heard it described as addressing root causes
Jeannie Oliver:versus just the symptoms.
Jeannie Oliver:But I think even that's sort of a limited way of describing it.
Jeannie Oliver:So,
Dr. Michelle Leary:I would argue that there's a lot of, you know,
Dr. Michelle Leary:intentionality behind even Western medicine and treating the root cause.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And I have a lot of conventional colleagues that, you know, trained
Dr. Michelle Leary:more strictly western medicine and they would say they're still
Dr. Michelle Leary:treating the root cause, you know?
Dr. Michelle Leary:Um, and I think that we have to be careful to say that.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Doctors aren't all intending to treat the root cause.
Dr. Michelle Leary:We just sometimes have different tools in our toolbox.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yes.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And that is, I think out of, We all go into, I think patient care
Dr. Michelle Leary:because we wanna help people.
Dr. Michelle Leary:It's just what are our tools in order to do that, what is our education?
Dr. Michelle Leary:In order to do that, and fortunately for you and I, we are taught
Dr. Michelle Leary:in our educational programs the importance of sleep and exercise
Dr. Michelle Leary:and nutrition and stress management.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And unfortunately those are just not prioritized in.
Dr. Michelle Leary:The conventional medical system right now, but it doesn't necessarily
Dr. Michelle Leary:mean they can't be applied, um, once someone is in practice.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So I think that's important to note.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Absolutely.
Jeannie Oliver:Absolutely.
Jeannie Oliver:So let's talk a little bit or tell us a little bit about hormones, because
Jeannie Oliver:I know this is a big focus for you.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:And so talked about the role that hormones play when it comes specifically to.
Jeannie Oliver:Metabolism and how that changes or maybe doesn't change.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah, as we age, um, specifically for us women, because yeah, so
Jeannie Oliver:many people come to me, you know, after the age of 40 typically,
Jeannie Oliver:and say everything that I used to.
Jeannie Oliver:Do, and he used to work for me, no longer works for me.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:My energy's in the tank.
Jeannie Oliver:I think my hormones are all out of whack.
Jeannie Oliver:what's going on?
Jeannie Oliver:And
Dr. Michelle Leary:obviously that's a very complex question
Jeannie Oliver:to unpack.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:But I'd love to just focus in today on, you know, metabolic health specifically
Jeannie Oliver:and the role of, of hormones there.
Jeannie Oliver:So what do you see in your practice and what's your approach?
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah, it's such a, a good and broad question.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So I wanna just start with, um, when we think about women in their early
Dr. Michelle Leary:forties, cuz I see the same thing, right?
Dr. Michelle Leary:It's usually women who have children that may be school age
Dr. Michelle Leary:or even entering adolescents.
Dr. Michelle Leary:There's a lot of transitional, things happening just from a life perspective
Dr. Michelle Leary:at that time, and that alone can put a stress on our adrenal glands, which
Dr. Michelle Leary:adrenal glands produce cortisol, D h e a, several other very important hormones.
Dr. Michelle Leary:That then can influence how the thyroid functions, can influence how our
Dr. Michelle Leary:ovaries, function to some extent and can also influence our weight in a lot
Dr. Michelle Leary:of different ways in in metabolism.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I should use the term metabolism better than just weight.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So I wanna just say that there's this, you know, painting broad.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Brush strokes, that time of life is also a factor, but hormonally
Dr. Michelle Leary:things do shift, especially if metabolism is changing simultaneously.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And I would argue that metabolism influences hormones more so than
Dr. Michelle Leary:hormones, influence metabolism.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And I think that's a really important distinction for people to
Dr. Michelle Leary:understand that if we're gonna look at root cause of dysfunction, we
Dr. Michelle Leary:have to look at what is somebody's metabolic health and how is that.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Influencing how their hormones are being produced, or excreted
Dr. Michelle Leary:through the body process, metabolize whatever word you wanna use, right?
Dr. Michelle Leary:So if we have this, let's just use a made up case here.
Dr. Michelle Leary:If we have this, mid forties, individual who is working full-time,
Dr. Michelle Leary:has children maybe in middle school.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So running them around with all these different activities, she doesn't
Dr. Michelle Leary:have a lot of time for her herself.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Self-care is kind of being put on the back burner.
Dr. Michelle Leary:She's eating snacks on the go because she's starving and just trying to get
Dr. Michelle Leary:food, where she can, It's very likely just from a statistical standpoint,
Dr. Michelle Leary:still the person who's doing majority of the household chores, and may or
Dr. Michelle Leary:may not have a really vibrant, healthy sex life and or relationship with
Dr. Michelle Leary:her spouse if she is still partnered or has a partner to begin with.
Dr. Michelle Leary:All of those things can play a role in then how metabolism's, namely something
Dr. Michelle Leary:called insulin resistance, which I know you talk a lot about in, in your
Dr. Michelle Leary:world and your podcast, I'm sure.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Can influence how estrogen is then, um, not only, not only metabolized,
Dr. Michelle Leary:but also produced to some extent.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Right, and so we can see what I call the canary in the coal mine
Dr. Michelle Leary:when it comes to insulin resistance start to happen long before we
Dr. Michelle Leary:start to notice it on blood sugar.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So somebody might have a normal.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Blood sugar marker called a hemoglobin a1c, which is an average.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Or they may also, um, not notice anything in terms of blood sugar
Dr. Michelle Leary:markers if they get something called a comprehensive metabolic panel.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Right.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So it's really important to note that there are other ways of, from a laboratory
Dr. Michelle Leary:perspective, seeing things change.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And of course weight gain is usually one of those pieces.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And loss of lean muscle tissue.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Loss of lean muscle tissue drives.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Part of this dysfunction.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So, so we get into this place where this person, this, uh, let's call
Dr. Michelle Leary:her Jane, is, is just overwhelmed, exhausted, doesn't have any time
Dr. Michelle Leary:for herself, starting to notice some changes in terms of how her clothes
Dr. Michelle Leary:fit, how her body feels, and she may have less lean tissue than she once did.
Dr. Michelle Leary:That is a key for us to then intervene and make sure that we are rebalancing
Dr. Michelle Leary:things, whether it be from a nutritional perspective, an adequate protein intake,
Dr. Michelle Leary:making sure that we are changing the type of exercise that she once did.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Maybe running is not the best form of exercise for her body.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And looking at ways that we can shift, again, insulin balance.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And there's a variety of ways that we can do that, again,
Dr. Michelle Leary:through natural interventions and.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And prescription if warranted.
Jeannie Oliver:I love that you take this approach because I so
Jeannie Oliver:often see it, people attacking this from the opposite way around.
Jeannie Oliver:Right.
Jeannie Oliver:And it's really exciting and empowering and I think a huge relief
Jeannie Oliver:to understand, wait, there are so many steps that we can take just
Jeannie Oliver:with our nutrition and our lifestyle and the type of movement or exercise
Jeannie Oliver:that we're doing, that can really.
Jeannie Oliver:Just to help us feel better and have smoother transitions or happier
Jeannie Oliver:hormones at any point in life.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yes.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Really.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Exactly.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And, and estrogen and progesterone balance, uh, is really critical.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So as, again, if we use this mid forties example as estrogen is
Dr. Michelle Leary:starting to rise, and typically that's not necessarily the production of
Dr. Michelle Leary:estrogen, which comes from our ovaries.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So our ovaries are the predominant place where estrogen is produced.
Dr. Michelle Leary:We may not be ovulating as consistently as we once did, and that creates an imbalance
Dr. Michelle Leary:between estrogen and progesterone where we have higher levels of estrogen cuz
Dr. Michelle Leary:our ovaries are still pumping that out.
Dr. Michelle Leary:But our progesterone is not as, vibrant or significant.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And that creates sometimes these shifts.
Dr. Michelle Leary:If you then add in some digestive uh, concerns that may also
Dr. Michelle Leary:be influencing how somebody.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Is able to get rid of, excrete their hormones, namely through
Dr. Michelle Leary:poor bowel elimination.
Dr. Michelle Leary:They're not sweating enough.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Uh, certainly chronically dehydrated or, or if there's any kidney
Dr. Michelle Leary:dysfunction, which can be mild.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michelle Leary:We can see then a slowing of just the whole process.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And I talked to my patients about we get these recycled estrogens on board, which
Dr. Michelle Leary:estrogen, one of its main jobs is to kind of help us prepare for a pregnancy.
Dr. Michelle Leary:That's one of the, just evolutionary.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Historical context.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Insulin drives up metabolism of estrogen, meaning we can take a little
Dr. Michelle Leary:bit of testosterone that our bodies are producing, namely from our adrenal
Dr. Michelle Leary:glands, from women and aromatize it.
Dr. Michelle Leary:That's an enzyme that can change from testosterone to estrogen.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So now we have dropping levels of testosterone, which are important
Dr. Michelle Leary:for women as well to maintain lean muscle tissue libido.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Energy.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:All the things that start to fall apart a bit.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Right.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Again, around that, I'm gonna call it five years premenopausal time.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Right?
Dr. Michelle Leary:So, okay.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Before menopause starts to hit, That shift then can be accelerated when the
Dr. Michelle Leary:ovaries are really starting to get tired.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And that's the definition of perimenopause when we start to see these shifts
Dr. Michelle Leary:of whether it be high spurts of estrogen production from the ovaries,
Dr. Michelle Leary:and then low amounts of production of testosterone often coincide.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:As someone who is entering that phase, this all makes perfect sense
Jeannie Oliver:and it's really, You explain it very elegantly and, and simply thank you.
Jeannie Oliver:Because obviously it's a complex process for sure.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:But I think understanding the basics of this is really helpful.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:The science is so critical for women to understand their own bodies.
Dr. Michelle Leary:No kidding.
Jeannie Oliver:No kidding.
Jeannie Oliver:And I feel so many of us, I think it's better for the younger generation.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:But so many of us my age or or beyond, We knew so little.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:It was sort of taboo to talk about.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:Our parents didn't necessarily even talk about it with us.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:And it's exciting to see that there's so much more good science out there now.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:that.
Jeannie Oliver:We're shining a light on the fact that there is this sort of disparity
Jeannie Oliver:of information about women's health
Dr. Michelle Leary:massive.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And, I mentioned this to you before we started recording, but, kind of my
Dr. Michelle Leary:passion project, if you will, is through a blog that I've started called Power
Dr. Michelle Leary:sex beauty.com, and it's really focused on empowering women to learn more about
Dr. Michelle Leary:their sexual health, their bodies, and, and really how that interrelates
Dr. Michelle Leary:even with their own partnerships, spouses, et cetera, relationships.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Because I think there has been this subject of a little bit of a taboo,
Dr. Michelle Leary:hey, you know, you don't talk about sex, maybe within your girlfriends, but
Dr. Michelle Leary:if your girlfriends aren't being kind of fully, Aware of their own bodies.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Sometimes you can get some misinformation, uh, not intentionally of course, but then
Dr. Michelle Leary:everybody's kind of thinking, well, why am I not normal and why is this happening?
Dr. Michelle Leary:And so much of what women experience is normal.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And part of that is drop in libido.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Is there's a normal amount of drop in libido.
Dr. Michelle Leary:There are ways that we can support it, but the expectation that we are
Dr. Michelle Leary:going to, no matter what amount of stress, no matter what little sleep.
Dr. Michelle Leary:No matter what type of responsibilities are on our plate, that we're just
Dr. Michelle Leary:gonna be this overly sexual, ravenous human forever is very unlikely.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Albeit, there are ways to mitigate that, if that is a way of, increasing,
Dr. Michelle Leary:The person's satisfaction and, and what some of their goals are.
Dr. Michelle Leary:There are ways to that.
Dr. Michelle Leary:We can look at that.
Dr. Michelle Leary:But yeah,
Jeannie Oliver:absolutely.
Jeannie Oliver:I love that.
Jeannie Oliver:well, I'm already fascinated by your blog, so I'm excited to see more of it.
Jeannie Oliver:and we'll provide all that information in the show notes for you guys
Jeannie Oliver:too, so you can go check it out.
Jeannie Oliver:I think too, people suffer so much unnecessarily because they think, oh,
Jeannie Oliver:well this is just the way it has to be, especially when we're talking about.
Jeannie Oliver:Perimenopause symptoms.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:Um, going through menopause, we have this idea that it's gonna be
Jeannie Oliver:this nightmarish, hellish thing.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:And you know, you just have to suffer through it and soldier on and.
Jeannie Oliver:Continue living up to all of the expectations of being
Jeannie Oliver:the superwoman and Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:Quote unquote, you know, having it all.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:Which really just means we have to do it all.
Jeannie Oliver:yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:So yeah, thank you for championing that, And really shedding
Jeannie Oliver:light on this because Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:We have enough expectations of ourselves exactly as it is.
Jeannie Oliver:And then you add in societal Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:Expectations, and all of these things.
Jeannie Oliver:And if we think, well, what, what's wrong with me?
Jeannie Oliver:I should be X, y, or Z constantly, and I should have, this ravenous sex drive all
Jeannie Oliver:the time, but we're completely depleted.
Jeannie Oliver:It's, yeah, it's completely unrealistic to expect that of ourselves.
Jeannie Oliver:I just think it gives us permission a little bit to step
Jeannie Oliver:back and go, wait a minute, like.
Jeannie Oliver:I'm a human, complex person, my body will change.
Jeannie Oliver:Yes.
Jeannie Oliver:What is normal?
Jeannie Oliver:What is reasonable?
Jeannie Oliver:Yes.
Jeannie Oliver:To expect of myself and
Dr. Michelle Leary:for others to expect of me.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Exactly.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And, and really there is a little bit of a misunderstanding around how hormones
Dr. Michelle Leary:can influence sex drive in the sense that.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Perimenopause can definitely influence sex drive in a variety of ways.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Hormonally is, is definitely one of them.
Dr. Michelle Leary:But dopamine, which is a neurotransmitter, is the predominant hormone that
Dr. Michelle Leary:initiates sexual desire in the brain.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So when we think about what drives sex drive, redundant there, but what
Dr. Michelle Leary:you know really increases sex drive, it is a brain neurotransmitter.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Peace and.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Dopamine is a pleasure seeking neurotransmitter.
Dr. Michelle Leary:It is designed to tell us to go seek, for time with friends, to have
Dr. Michelle Leary:sex, to spend time in nature, to do whatever it is that we wanna do.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And if dopamine is, again, not being produced in adequate amounts because of
Dr. Michelle Leary:depletion in other areas, which of course, the brain is an extremely complex organ.
Dr. Michelle Leary:It is not going to function as well.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Testosterone, what's important to just kind of maybe bring, bring the
Dr. Michelle Leary:other hormones full circle here.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Testosterone stimulates more dopamine binding in the brain.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And so you can see this indirect relationship with testosterone, which
Dr. Michelle Leary:is why testosterone, a lot of women will come and want their testosterone tested
Dr. Michelle Leary:cuz they'll think, well, that's the issue that's low and it might be, mm.
Dr. Michelle Leary:But where the literature is going and really where the
Dr. Michelle Leary:understanding of sex drive.
Dr. Michelle Leary:It's more of if somebody is, experiencing Anne Hedonia, which is really loss in
Dr. Michelle Leary:interest of pleasure seeking activities.
Dr. Michelle Leary:By definition, there's a fantastic book for women who are, and men
Dr. Michelle Leary:who are interested in this topic.
Dr. Michelle Leary:It's called Why Good Sex Matters by Dr.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Nan Weiss.
Dr. Michelle Leary:She's a neurobiologist and also a sex therapist.
Dr. Michelle Leary:It's a really cool combination.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And she really talks about this loss of, interest in pleasure seeking activities
Dr. Michelle Leary:as the driver of, loss of libido.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And we see this commonly in women who are postpartum.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Where you get somebody who is exhausted, they are giving
Dr. Michelle Leary:everything they have to these little beings to try to keep them alive.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And their libido also because of evolutionary pressures has dropped.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And then women are still expected by their own expectations.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Maybe not always, right?
Dr. Michelle Leary:Maybe not what their husbands or partners are expecting, but their own expectations.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Why am I broken, right?
Dr. Michelle Leary:Why?
Dr. Michelle Leary:What's wrong with me is something that I hear a lot, and I said
Dr. Michelle Leary:this to a patient this morning.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I said, You evolutionarily were supposed to just be taking care of your
Dr. Michelle Leary:children so you could keep them alive.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Exactly.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And And nature has not prioritized sex.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Doesn't mean we can't influence it using our knowledge of biochemistry and
Dr. Michelle Leary:physiology, if that's what you want.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:But let's talk about like what is it that you want versus what you
Dr. Michelle Leary:actually are expecting of yourself,
Jeannie Oliver:right?
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah, exactly.
Jeannie Oliver:And I think because people are so depleted and so run down
Jeannie Oliver:and they're doing too much.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:Or they're just stuck in the daily grind and they haven't prioritized pleasure
Jeannie Oliver:and fun and true rest, connection.
Jeannie Oliver:All of these things that feed our soul in life.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:They're not getting that.
Jeannie Oliver:Dopamine that would be produced by those things.
Jeannie Oliver:So I think it kind of goes both ways.
Jeannie Oliver:Exactly.
Jeannie Oliver:Right.
Jeannie Oliver:You're not doing the things that stimulate this.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:And then you're getting less of it, and then you want less of it
Jeannie Oliver:because you've got no dopamine.
Jeannie Oliver:Sort of this vicious cycle.
Jeannie Oliver:Is that
Dr. Michelle Leary:exactly accurate?
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah, that's accurate.
Dr. Michelle Leary:That's beautifully said.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michelle Leary:and probably even, taking it a step further is we also wanna think about
Dr. Michelle Leary:the inhibitory mechanisms that block some of that dopamine secretion.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And also, you know, how, those can be influenced things like antidepressants
Dr. Michelle Leary:even, which can absolutely be indicated for particularly anxiety disorders.
Dr. Michelle Leary:less favorable.
Dr. Michelle Leary:SSRIs specifically for specifically depression these days per some data
Dr. Michelle Leary:that came out a couple years ago, but it's a different conversation.
Dr. Michelle Leary:SSRIs can inhibit sex drive because they're intended to raise serotonin, which
Dr. Michelle Leary:serotonin's an important neurotransmitter as well and it's own right.
Dr. Michelle Leary:But it is actually going to inhibit someone's ability
Dr. Michelle Leary:to, be as interested in sex.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And particularly that dopamine connection.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So, Hence why there are agents out there that are in the antidepressant
Dr. Michelle Leary:realm that, increase dopamine, that tend to also not inhibit sex drive.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So, somebody, you know, is listening and is wondering, you
Dr. Michelle Leary:know, well, am I on one of those?
Dr. Michelle Leary:The name of that agent is Wellbutrin, which is a very common antidepressant.
Dr. Michelle Leary:not to say that everybody should run out and get a Wellbutrin, but I, I do like
Dr. Michelle Leary:that one better often, than some of the other categories that raise serotonin.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Depending on the situation.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:And I can't tell you how often I have heard from clients that
Jeannie Oliver:when they first come see me, they are on one of those mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:Medications.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:And they will say, I have absolutely zero sex drive.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:Since I've been taking this.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:I don't wanna kill myself anymore.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:But I also don't wanna have sex with my partner.
Jeannie Oliver:It's hurting my marriage.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:And.
Jeannie Oliver:Thank God there are better options now.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:Because that's an important part of
Dr. Michelle Leary:life too.
Dr. Michelle Leary:It absolutely is.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:We don't want anyone to be depressed.
Jeannie Oliver:I mean, thank God for some of these things.
Jeannie Oliver:If it's gonna save your life.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:A hundred percent.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:There's, go for it.
Dr. Michelle Leary:A place, I think.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Absolutely.
Dr. Michelle Leary:There's a time and a place, but I think we could both agree that
Dr. Michelle Leary:there's, you know, an overprescription.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Epidemic, in this country particularly, and doubt, it goes
Dr. Michelle Leary:back to the toolbox conversation.
Dr. Michelle Leary:If you're trained to only have a set of tools and that toolbox includes
Dr. Michelle Leary:writing prescriptions, and you only have seven minutes with your patient,
Dr. Michelle Leary:and they are saying that they're.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Feeling really, really down how much counseling you're gonna
Dr. Michelle Leary:get to do in seven minutes.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Exactly.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And then you add that to the mental health provider crisis.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Right now, how many people can find a therapist post covid, especially
Dr. Michelle Leary:a therapist that takes insurance?
Dr. Michelle Leary:Good luck.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:If you find one and they're good, please send me a message so I can
Dr. Michelle Leary:refer people to them because it is near impossible right now to find.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And so we're in a situation where, Providers are doing the best they can.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And part of that is over-prescribing because what
Dr. Michelle Leary:else are you gonna do to help your
Jeannie Oliver:patients?
Jeannie Oliver:Exactly.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:They do what they can.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah, absolutely.
Jeannie Oliver:Exactly.
Jeannie Oliver:So, uh, that said, what are some of the most common ways that you see
Jeannie Oliver:that we women hijack our hormones?
Jeannie Oliver:maybe we're in a place where we don't necessarily have access to, the type of
Jeannie Oliver:medical care that we'd like to get, or maybe the mental health care, et cetera.
Jeannie Oliver:So we want, well, or we do, whether we do or we don't.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:If we want to stop doing things mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:That are detrimental to, mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:Hormone health.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:Neurotransmitter health.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:What would be the most common things that you see as far as either
Jeannie Oliver:habits with nutrition or lifestyle?
Jeannie Oliver:You mentioned kind of that constant stress.
Jeannie Oliver:we know that that's a problem, but what are the other most common problematic
Jeannie Oliver:things that people are doing that can really throw the system off and
Jeannie Oliver:create that negative downward cascade?
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah, I love that question.
Dr. Michelle Leary:The first thing that comes to mind is sleep.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And that again, seems so obvious and so basic, and, and people sometimes are
Dr. Michelle Leary:like, oh, I know I should get more sleep.
Dr. Michelle Leary:But you really have to understand that if you're not prioritizing sleep, that
Dr. Michelle Leary:the expectations that things are going to get better without adequate sleep.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:You can't just medicate or push your way through it.
Dr. Michelle Leary:so.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Burning the midnight oil to use an antiquated phrase
Dr. Michelle Leary:and trying to get up early.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And again, I think about so many of my patients that are getting up trying to
Dr. Michelle Leary:get their teenagers ready for school.
Dr. Michelle Leary:You know, 6:00 AM out the door.
Dr. Michelle Leary:They're staying up till 11, trying to just get some work done, answering
Dr. Michelle Leary:emails that are constantly giving us notifications on our phones.
Dr. Michelle Leary:waking up multiple times through the night because they're having to urinate
Dr. Michelle Leary:or that they're just tossing and turning cuz they're thinking about work.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Sleep has to be addressed.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And if you're not prioritizing your sleep, there's not a whole lot that I, I feel
Dr. Michelle Leary:like the other areas of health are going to be able to significantly influence.
Jeannie Oliver:Could not agree more with that.
Dr. Michelle Leary:The second would, definitely be the
Dr. Michelle Leary:lack of intentional movement.
Dr. Michelle Leary:One of my nutritionists, at Vita, her name is Carolina, she uses the term
Dr. Michelle Leary:intentional movement a lot, which I like.
Dr. Michelle Leary:People will not prioritize movement because of time often.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I am a single mom of a five-year-old.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I get it, I work full-time.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Um, but it has to be prioritized in order to be able to achieve
Dr. Michelle Leary:again, the goals that you wanna do.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Intentional movement doesn't have to be high intensity.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Uh, I think that it's important that it also doesn't have to be long in duration.
Dr. Michelle Leary:You don't have to go to the gym for an hour, five minutes of going up
Dr. Michelle Leary:and down the stairs, or walking, you know, getting a step in the home.
Dr. Michelle Leary:It's just something that you can get your heart rate up, especially after
Dr. Michelle Leary:a meal, can make a huge difference.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah, and again, going back to that insulin resistance piece.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I'm a big fan of, people getting a weighted vest.
Dr. Michelle Leary:You know, you can get these from any online, large retailer.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And they're so, effective at just increasing a little bit of
Dr. Michelle Leary:that strength training aspect.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Even in things like walking around the neighborhood, can make a huge
Dr. Michelle Leary:difference for those with young children.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Making sure that you're like strapping them on and then adding whatever you can.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And terms of a backpack.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:cuz that can make a big difference.
Dr. Michelle Leary:so intentional movement, I would say.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Is really critical, but not just saying, you know.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Making a plan for yourself and strength training.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Just going back to that metabolism piece.
Dr. Michelle Leary:If we don't address metabolism, our hormones are not going, yes.
Dr. Michelle Leary:We're not gonna get where we want with our hormones.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And so prioritizing that is really critical.
Dr. Michelle Leary:so that's what I would say about movement you know, nutrition is obvious.
Dr. Michelle Leary:This is, you know, your realm.
Dr. Michelle Leary:You talk about this with your clients every single day.
Dr. Michelle Leary:But I really don't see women get enough protein.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And yeah, with, uh, Ozempic or Semaglutide, um, the generic form of,
Dr. Michelle Leary:of Ozempic being extremely popular these days, which is a medication that I use
Dr. Michelle Leary:in my practice a lot with patients.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michelle Leary:that is causing an even bigger concern around, again, loss of lean muscle tissue.
Jeannie Oliver:Yes.
Jeannie Oliver:I actually have a doctor talking about that exact subject in a few weeks,
Jeannie Oliver:so we're gonna dive deep on that.
Jeannie Oliver:But absolutely, That's a major
Dr. Michelle Leary:concern.
Dr. Michelle Leary:It's a major concern.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And you get somebody who may only be in a category of lean tissue
Dr. Michelle Leary:that's borderline to start.
Dr. Michelle Leary:You give them an agent that can accelerate loss of lean tissue.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And then they go off this, they may lose weight, but they then
Dr. Michelle Leary:end up in a situation that is.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Potentially more metabolically compromised in the end.
Dr. Michelle Leary:With that being said, I do prescribe this, I do find that there is a,
Dr. Michelle Leary:a time and a place, I use it in, you know, for weight less often.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I.
Dr. Michelle Leary:But I require them to work with a nutritionist who has understanding Right.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Of ensuring they're getting adequate amount of, of protein.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And protein in the diet is, is just underrated right now.
Dr. Michelle Leary:you know, people go through trends.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Nutrition is certainly no stranger to, I'm kidding.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Fats and trends.
Dr. Michelle Leary:and you know, fats, you know, we're all the rage five years ago and I think they
Dr. Michelle Leary:still are really, really important to emphasize healthy fats, particularly
Dr. Michelle Leary:for metabolic balance as well.
Dr. Michelle Leary:But I think the key to the kingdom, frankly, is eat mostly
Dr. Michelle Leary:plants, some, meats, lots of fish, and ensure that you're getting.
Dr. Michelle Leary:At least a minimum amount of protein or your body weight
Dr. Michelle Leary:and type based on your goals.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And usually it, you know, nutritionist is the best person to kind of help
Dr. Michelle Leary:you work through that or using some of these really great apps.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Chronometers is one that um, I know my nutrition team loves.
Dr. Michelle Leary:It's one I use too.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah, it's a good one.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So those are just some, just the basic suggestions.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And then also things like sleep apnea can go undiagnosed.
Dr. Michelle Leary:if somebody is even having some mild snoring, that can influence how their
Dr. Michelle Leary:body is able to not only get oxygen to their brain and cause that restorative
Dr. Michelle Leary:sleep, but also influencing their hormones, weight gain, increases
Dr. Michelle Leary:the risk for sleep apnea, right?
Dr. Michelle Leary:And so we have this unfortunate cascade of.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Somebody gets really busy, their metabolism is changing, which
Dr. Michelle Leary:influences their hormones, which then they develop sleep apnea,
Dr. Michelle Leary:which exacerbates their metabolic dysfunction, that's and their hormones.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And then there's a depletion of some of those feel good neurotransmitters.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So we have to look at if there's any kind of snoring that asking their doctor for a
Dr. Michelle Leary:sleep study referral, cuz that's, that's a fix, that's a non-pharmacologic fix.
Dr. Michelle Leary:That can be extremely beneficial.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:And everyone check out my episode.
Jeannie Oliver:the week before this with, Dana Tasha.
Jeannie Oliver:She is a myofunctional therapist and we talk a lot about sleep and, um,
Jeannie Oliver:sleep apnea and all those things.
Jeannie Oliver:So we do a deep dive on that, which is a really great, great episode.
Jeannie Oliver:If you're, you know, dealing with any of those challenges or your partner
Jeannie Oliver:snores, Before we shift gears, cuz I definitely wanna make sure we get
Jeannie Oliver:everything in, in the interest of time touch, and I know this is a big,
Jeannie Oliver:subject, but touch a little on alcohol.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Oh gosh.
Dr. Michelle Leary:The mom wine club.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:bluntly alcohol is a toxicant.
Dr. Michelle Leary:there is not a, large amount of benefit, if any.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Um, you could make a caveat that if somebody socially is engaging more, that
Dr. Michelle Leary:there are benefits in, in that piece.
Dr. Michelle Leary:because social community is very important, but there really
Dr. Michelle Leary:is no significant benefit to alcohol, and alcohol is processed.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Has more calories per gram than carbohydrates.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Seven calories per gram versus carbohydrates are four.
Dr. Michelle Leary:it has zero nutritional value to it and is, absolutely
Dr. Michelle Leary:something that can disrupt sleep.
Dr. Michelle Leary:It will, increase the demand for the liver, obviously, to be processed at night
Dr. Michelle Leary:and depletes something called glycine, which is a, uh, important amino acid
Dr. Michelle Leary:that is, responsible for keeping the.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Brain calm and cool and relaxed.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Uh, if you get a depletion of glycine, you often will experience frequent
Dr. Michelle Leary:wakings at night, which is a whole other conversation we could talk about.
Dr. Michelle Leary:but I, personally, um, I understand why people still, uh, engage
Dr. Michelle Leary:regularly in alcohol consumption.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I personally enjoy a glass of wine with my partner, but.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I know that I'm not gonna feel as clear even after one glass of wine the next day.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I, it's a known thing and as long as you are making a choice, just like
Dr. Michelle Leary:if you go and you eat some gummy bears, you probably know intuitively
Dr. Michelle Leary:gummy bears are not good for you.
Dr. Michelle Leary:But if you really want the gummy bears, okay, but alcohol can
Dr. Michelle Leary:influence the whole sorts of things.
Dr. Michelle Leary:There is a disruption in hormone processing with alcohol.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And so if somebody's already struggling with how their hormones are processed
Dr. Michelle Leary:through the liver, it is only going to add a little bit more work.
Dr. Michelle Leary:You can think of it as just it's pushing people to the back
Dr. Michelle Leary:of the line and hormones are tend to be, um, in that realm.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Alcohol is prioritized because it is a toxin.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Right.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Would that scare your audience to know?
Dr. Michelle Leary:Well, I think they've
Jeannie Oliver:probably heard me make points about that
Jeannie Oliver:before, and I'm the same as you.
Jeannie Oliver:You know, I love a beautiful craft cocktail or glass of wine
Jeannie Oliver:now and then, but I definitely notice its effects, especially
Jeannie Oliver:now that I'm more in touch with.
Jeannie Oliver:My body.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:Um, when I was more dissociated from my body, it was a little different,
Jeannie Oliver:but now I kind of know what's going on and I can really tell just by looking
Jeannie Oliver:at my aura ring data, like, Ooh.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:Okay.
Jeannie Oliver:And it's just no longer worth
Dr. Michelle Leary:it to me.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:to do it, more often than, than once in a while because mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:My health is a priority.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:and I, I just feel like we are exposed to, so.
Jeannie Oliver:Many toxins in our world that we have absolutely no control over that, you
Jeannie Oliver:know, we can't be insane about it.
Jeannie Oliver:Right?
Jeannie Oliver:But the ones that we do have control over and can avoid,
Jeannie Oliver:Hey, let's just do our best.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And I think, again, looking at that social balance and just like anything, you know,
Dr. Michelle Leary:moderation's critical, but alcohol, it does slow everything down and makes it so
Dr. Michelle Leary:the body has to work a little bit harder.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And if that's an accepted.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Risk.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michelle Leary:when it comes to, Pathologies that can emerge.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Non-alcoholic and alcoholic fatty liver disease is one of the biggest, epidemics
Dr. Michelle Leary:in this country that coincides with high blood sugar, diabetes, elevated
Dr. Michelle Leary:triglycerides, the whole gamut.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And when you have fat deposits into your liver, again, like what's
Dr. Michelle Leary:the organ that's responsible for processing hormones and a variety
Dr. Michelle Leary:of other really important functions.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So, you know, you can't have this expectation that you're gonna
Dr. Michelle Leary:feel hormonally well, right?
Dr. Michelle Leary:If you are not treating your body with the respect that it's demanding.
Dr. Michelle Leary:When it starts to let you know, Hey, this isn't, I don't
Dr. Michelle Leary:like this, I don't feel good.
Jeannie Oliver:And I love the way that you phrased that, treating your body
Jeannie Oliver:with the respect that it's demanding.
Jeannie Oliver:When it's sending you these messages.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:That's a very, very different mindset and way of approaching this than saying,
Jeannie Oliver:well, I'm depriving myself of something.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:And I think that that's a very cultural thing.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:Here that, oh, well you don't have to deprive, you shouldn't
Jeannie Oliver:have to deprive yourself.
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:It's not depriving yourself, it's really treating your body with respect and giving
Jeannie Oliver:it what it needs and each stage of life.
Jeannie Oliver:Right.
Jeannie Oliver:and that's a much more empowered place to come from.
Jeannie Oliver:Yes.
Jeannie Oliver:And it just feels better.
Jeannie Oliver:It feels better when you make those choices because then your energy's better.
Jeannie Oliver:Your sleep is better.
Jeannie Oliver:You enjoy your life more.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So what are you actually depriving yourself of?
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And Jenny, have you seen those, wine alternatives that are full
Dr. Michelle Leary:of adaptogenic herbs and Yes.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Things that are actually beneficial?
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I also
Jeannie Oliver:give them
Dr. Michelle Leary:as client gifts.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I love them.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yes.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I love, like, there's a couple of them that I absolutely love and
Dr. Michelle Leary:think that they taste super good and they're not high in sugar.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And I, you know, you can put 'em in a wine glass even, and then you feel like you're.
Dr. Michelle Leary:You know, and it's not to, and try to fool anybody, but really, like
Dr. Michelle Leary:you are prioritizing your health.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yes.
Dr. Michelle Leary:When you make those choices and if your goal is to become intoxicated, well
Dr. Michelle Leary:it's not gonna work, but meaning, right.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Bringing those, but it, it's certainly will make you feel
Dr. Michelle Leary:a lot better the next day.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Absolutely.
Jeannie Oliver:And I think sometimes the ritual of having that.
Jeannie Oliver:Lovely.
Jeannie Oliver:You know, special drink and a pretty glass is important.
Jeannie Oliver:I think that that's a healthy thing.
Jeannie Oliver:I don't have any issue with that.
Jeannie Oliver:I encourage people often to create those rituals for themselves.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:Because that's usually what they want.
Jeannie Oliver:That's the partition between maybe work and and personal
Jeannie Oliver:time, or now I'm on vacation.
Jeannie Oliver:All of those things that I think are significant and even healthy, and we can
Jeannie Oliver:do them in ways that serve us better.
Jeannie Oliver:Yep.
Jeannie Oliver:Agree.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Jeannie Oliver:So Couple things that I'd love to ask you.
Jeannie Oliver:we've touched on this a little bit, but when you're working with patients, how
Jeannie Oliver:do you sort of guide them out of that sort of mentality of being disempowered
Jeannie Oliver:and thinking, well, it's all downhill from here after a certain age, and
Jeannie Oliver:what are the most important ways.
Jeannie Oliver:know, we talked about sleep, intentional movement, getting enough
Jeannie Oliver:protein, maybe adjusting your alcohol, possibly maybe caffeine intake, right?
Jeannie Oliver:Mm-hmm.
Jeannie Oliver:To, feel better.
Jeannie Oliver:but, what do you think are the top few ways?
Jeannie Oliver:Yes.
Jeannie Oliver:Or what are the biggest tips that you would leave listeners with to
Jeannie Oliver:help them have healthier hormones and maintain healthier metabolism and body
Jeannie Oliver:composition in perimenopause and beyond?
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah, so this might seem like a slight departure
Dr. Michelle Leary:from what we've already talked about, but the mental, emotional, spiritual
Dr. Michelle Leary:piece, which is when anyone is familiar with, functional medicine, the center
Dr. Michelle Leary:of what's called the matrix, which is really the operating system in
Dr. Michelle Leary:which functional medicine, is taught is mental, emotional, spiritual.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And if that piece is not being addressed, um, which can obviously
Dr. Michelle Leary:be influenced by things like sleep and nutrition and exercise.
Dr. Michelle Leary:We're not gonna get where we wanna be.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And the empowerment piece really comes from, within, it comes from
Dr. Michelle Leary:our perceptions of ourselves.
Dr. Michelle Leary:It comes from how we, engage in the world with putting ourselves as a priority and.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I look at something called attachment theory, which has a lot to do with how
Dr. Michelle Leary:we relate to our intimate partners, but also how we relate to others,
Dr. Michelle Leary:friendships, family members, and can have some behaviors of self abandonment,
Dr. Michelle Leary:both in all the different types of attachment in, in the time we have,
Dr. Michelle Leary:we don't have, the opportunity to dive into all of that, but very briefly,
Dr. Michelle Leary:There's four different attachment types.
Dr. Michelle Leary:There's an anxious type, there's a dismissive avoidant type,
Dr. Michelle Leary:there's a fearful avoidant type, and then there's a secure, and
Dr. Michelle Leary:we would all aspire to be secure.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And again, bringing it back to how somebody can look within and say, okay.
Dr. Michelle Leary:How does this attachment type influence my mental emotional wellness?
Dr. Michelle Leary:Well, if you are constantly prioritizing, let's say, your partner, your kids, your
Dr. Michelle Leary:work over yourself, you may be someone who leans towards the anxious attachment
Dr. Michelle Leary:type because you feel your worth is only going to be achieved by giving.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yourself to others, right?
Dr. Michelle Leary:And until you start to prioritize how to give yourself back to you,
Dr. Michelle Leary:and that can be small things.
Dr. Michelle Leary:You don't have to quit your job and abandon your children and
Dr. Michelle Leary:get divorced in order to do this.
Dr. Michelle Leary:But it may be saying no to, uh, project request or asking your partner to
Dr. Michelle Leary:drive your kids to this soccer practice or spending a weekend where you are
Dr. Michelle Leary:just able to write in your journal.
Dr. Michelle Leary:There are ways that we can get back to ourselves, and that is such a
Dr. Michelle Leary:common thing for women to be giving more than we have the capacity to do.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And we run on an empty tank.
Dr. Michelle Leary:The reason that attachment theory can be so useful.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Is because it gives you the understanding of why you developed the way that you did.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Usually due to very early childhood programming, which when your therapist
Dr. Michelle Leary:says, you know, it's all your parents' fault, it kind of is I love them, right?
Dr. Michelle Leary:As, as a parent myself, I'm like, oh, how do I not screw him up?
Dr. Michelle Leary:Like, how do I not, how do I not do this, but could be.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So many little microtraumas that can happen that are just daily life.
Dr. Michelle Leary:You know, that you as a very young child perceived, and now you have
Dr. Michelle Leary:spent the rest of your adult life trying to earn other people's worth.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Or at the same token for the dismissive avoidant types.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Maybe you've kept people a distance away because having people get to
Dr. Michelle Leary:know who you really are doesn't feel safe, and vulnerability is
Dr. Michelle Leary:a really uncomfortable thing.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So therefore, so having pointing at myself Yeah, and giving yourself the
Dr. Michelle Leary:opportunity to be more vulnerable with others is part of that work to do.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And it's actually the opposite of the anxious type, so.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I think that, the foundations of health, we already talked about
Dr. Michelle Leary:sleep, exercise, nutrition, stress management, you know, reduction of
Dr. Michelle Leary:toxicants like alcohol and caffeine.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Absolutely.
Dr. Michelle Leary:But if we don't talk about how our mental emotional space influences
Dr. Michelle Leary:how these other facets are working, we're not gonna prioritize exercise.
Dr. Michelle Leary:We're not gonna welcome in healthy conversations with friends and
Dr. Michelle Leary:family members and intimate partners.
Dr. Michelle Leary:We're not going to be able to achieve what we wanna do if
Dr. Michelle Leary:the mental piece isn't there.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And I personally have really fallen in love with attachment theory because
Dr. Michelle Leary:of, The way that it contextualizes the framework of how our brains develop.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Mm-hmm.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And how we relate to fascinating others.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Fascinating and ourselves.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So, strongly encourage anyone who's interested.
Dr. Michelle Leary:the book attached, by Levine is, is an excellent resource as is,
Dr. Michelle Leary:personal development school.com.
Dr. Michelle Leary:is another online resource that I refer people to a lot.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Cool.
Dr. Michelle Leary:We'll put
Jeannie Oliver:those in the show notes for you as well.
Jeannie Oliver:And Dr.
Jeannie Oliver:Leary, will you come back one day and do an episode with
Jeannie Oliver:me just on attachment theory?
Dr. Michelle Leary:My God.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Any day.
Jeannie Oliver:Okay, awesome.
Jeannie Oliver:I think people would be really curious to hear that.
Jeannie Oliver:I think that would be a really
Dr. Michelle Leary:valuable, yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I just did this training for the Functional Medicine Coaching Academy.
Dr. Michelle Leary:for them I did a three-part series on attachment theory in relation
Dr. Michelle Leary:to, sexual desire and general, applications of functional medicine.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And attachment theory is just so central in my opinion, so I would love to.
Jeannie Oliver:Awesome.
Jeannie Oliver:Okay.
Jeannie Oliver:That sounds great.
Jeannie Oliver:Well, this has been such a great conversation.
Jeannie Oliver:I really enjoyed it and this is such great information.
Jeannie Oliver:Tell everyone where they can find you and um, again, we'll put this all in the show
Jeannie Oliver:notes, but yeah, give us the four 11.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah.
Dr. Michelle Leary:so I have a clinical practice at Vita Integrated Health.
Dr. Michelle Leary:so that is in the Seattle area.
Dr. Michelle Leary:We have five clinics, three of which have functional medicine.
Dr. Michelle Leary:I'm the residency director, so I do have residents that, I oversee as well as a
Dr. Michelle Leary:fantastic colleague over in Bellevue.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So, we are currently in the midst of some transitions, but would love if anyone is
Dr. Michelle Leary:interested in doing clinical consults.
Dr. Michelle Leary:That is where to find me.
Dr. Michelle Leary:And I also have a blog, power sex beauty.com, which is,
Dr. Michelle Leary:again, my passion project.
Dr. Michelle Leary:Lots of articles on attachment theory, hypoactive sexual desire
Dr. Michelle Leary:disorder, and some hormonal pieces both for men and women on there.
Dr. Michelle Leary:So, um, that is where you can find me.
Jeannie Oliver:Awesome.
Jeannie Oliver:Yeah, it's a really great resource.
Jeannie Oliver:So Wonderful.
Jeannie Oliver:Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today.
Jeannie Oliver:We'll look forward to future episodes.
Jeannie Oliver:Pleasure and thanks for joining us, everybody, and we'll see you next time.
